Wednesday, December 5, 2012

new idea for me, borrowed from EB

I had occasion to reread Sidereal's last post, having referred my son to it this morning....  It's no surprise to me that blogs' comment sections can be just as fertile an area for ideas as the main text -- except where the audience is a pack of morons, and Ad Libitum's readers are NOT.

"Exceptionally Brash" made a comment which didn't particularly "click" with me when i first read it, but DID this morning.  She observed that the use of bioidentical progesterone seemed to "fix" her ability to use carbohydrates in a "normal" way (my phrasing).  Remember, she was a lean vegetarian for many years, then with midlife hormonal changes began to gain weight on the same intake that she maintained with before.

The discussion seems to me to settle on dopamine as the final substance which wrought the desirable end-product, but i wonder if testosterone might be a part of the equation.  It occurs to me that the paleo world's "potato brigade" is peopled largely by the highly-T-endowed amongst us....

Since going out of town a couple of weeks ago, i have been abnormally low in energy.  It's as though to have even MY usual levels of vitality, i need to have every nutrient in proper quantity and balance just like a house of cards -- and one puff of wind (in the form of a deficiency, or too many carbs, or too little sleep...) can tumble it right down.  The tedious rebuilding of my Edifice of Energy can take a LONG TIME ... and i'm just beginning the second story at this point.

I'm going to try yet another experiment.  Adding tyrosine made me hyper instead of energetic, and carnitine was less than perfect too, though i'm still using both supplements albeit in smaller, less frequent doses.  I just ordered some sublingual pregnenolone tablets as suggested by Drs Peat and Sahelian (not that these guys are on my go-to list), and i'm interested to see what the effects will be.  Ideally, it will be a better supplement than the progesterone cream i've used before, which tends to promote fat deposition on the location where it's applied!

12 comments:

  1. I haven't blogged about it yet because I am still in the middle of the big experiment. After 2-plus months on progesterone and more carbs, I am finding that I am getting less desirable results. While I am able to easily take on more stress, I am noticing some undesirable results like an increase in skin tags.
    For me, all this tinkering with hormones usually works better when I stay at the lower end of the carb spectrum. It seems like it is better for me to keep everything low until I can control the inevitable imbalance.
    Jack Kruse's progesterone blog got me thinking about the ratio of hormones, not the absolute value. Dr. food-reward also did a recent post on reasons food reward is not a dominant factor for menopausal women. He seems to be just repeating what he has heard. If you are fat and surrounded by estrogenic stuff, why add more? The problem with meno isn't that estrogen is lower, it that progesterone tanks. I thought I would be out of the woods once menopause was over and all that estrogen went away, but what it really did is completely remove the progesterone while my fat was still cranking out estrogen, and I believe that is what created my disaster.

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  2. yes, my understanding is that even though estrogen is "low" it's the progesterone and testosterone almost totally GONE that screws us up so bad! since pregnenolone is the precursor for both, i figured it might be better to go with that instead of maca, which has been listed as a "thyroid troublemaker" (you know i tend to avoid those till i'm sure they don't deserve their reputation).

    i found it interesting, reading about P, that it showed lots of promise in the 1930s when it was discovered, then they found out about cortisol, and it completely stole the limelight. this seems to happen in the medical world -- they find a bright shiny new toy and it diverts their attention from what might have been better all along. (like leptin....)

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  3. there was more imbalance for me. When I started the traz., not only did I experience dramatic weight loss, for the first week I jumped out of bed really dizzy and groggy, but rarin' to go on all my action items. It was surreal. I got more done in one morning than an entire week before. And, how do you say hypersexual?? DHEA was similar, but not as dramatic, and the sleep was really great, but after a couple of months and a weekend of carbs, I didn't like the results: PMS-like, zitty, hair falling out. Seemed like too much estrogen and testosterone. Getting off DHEA and going on strict low carb and it still took several weeks for all the hormones to go down. This time, with progesterone, it has taken a couple of months of more-carby eating (and not always the safe kind~) to get into an imbalance. I think that this time around I have fixed other issues like D, iodine, circadian rhythms, chronic cardio. My latest plan is to get through the holidays intact and then go uber lo carb for a time while on P, and see if that can't beat back the weight some more. My hope is that I'll have enough stock hormones to pull it off.

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    1. on the one hand, experimentation is really interesting and can be exciting when the clouds roll back -- but when things don't go so well, it can take so long to fix! i'm grateful to have the time and money to be able to play with diet and supplements. i really have empathy for people who have to soldier through their daily grind while feeling awful and having this kind of low energy!

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  4. Oh, I know. This stasis model snags the tater-tots in the paleodome every time.

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  5. I know nothing about progesterone except that I feel terrible during the luteal phase. But what you said about tyrosine and carnitine rings true for me. Wired, agitated, and when on tyrosine, monstrous headache.

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    1. :-) i think that's the difference between young-uns like you and Wooo, and the middle-aged amongst us.... progesterone is problem if you have "too much" OR too little. the estrogen-dominance thing is only a big issue with elders of both sexes!

      i've long had a touch of "essential tremor" and when i added tyrosine it got BAD -- made me wonder if i was getting spikes of hyPERthyroidism! cutting back on it and adding mucuna pruriens (for the dopa) made a big difference.

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    2. Hehe, good point, which is why we shouldn't be quick to generalise from pre- to post-menopausal women. Drastically different endocrine millieu.

      Re tyrosine, I too have a touch of tremor and observed the same problem. Excessive epinephrine/norepinephrine is the issue there. For me tyrosine causes too much agitation, like drinking 22 cups of coffee. Mucuna is much better being a pure dopamine agonist.

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    3. and now Wooo has just written about mucuna and tyrosine, coming to a conclusion opposite mine for optimal well-being.... we're all surprisingly different!

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  6. Hey yea, whether one is a tater tot or a youngin' sans carbs, I say once they get to menopause themselves, they can make up their own mind. Strikes me as odd that paleo types can rail against conventional wisdom and then accept everything they have read about menopause hook line and sinker.

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  7. "wait till it happens to you" ... haven't we all said that at one time or another? :-)

    but it's not only THAT subject! the other day i was reading one of those study reviews which 1) confused correlation and causation, and 2) confirmed the writer's bias. :-P either we condemn things like this, or we allow it -- but i dislike the hypocrisy of SOMETIMES saying these studies are valid! consistency IS a virtue.

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