Friday, August 28, 2015

detox?!

I participate in a ZC facebook group -- compared to many nutrition groups I've read, this one is outstanding.  Most of the people there are kind and supportive, even though some are pretty dumb and others pretty hard-line;  thanks to great leadership, people who aren't truly ZC (like me) are tolerated, and potential trolls are given the benefit of the doubt until they get really obnoxious.  Just as is my policy here, ASKING a sensitive question (hello, Charles) is not the same as being a jerk ("Christopher," why do you even try).

Over and over again though, on that ZC page, people report problems with how their bodies respond to what they're eating.  The page-owners leave their experienced-and-knowledgeable replies in amongst the comments of -- ahem -- people with considerably less of both qualities.  One of my "favorite" excuses for unpleasant bodily responses is DETOX!!!  "Your body is detoxing!"

Our bodies detox CONSTANTLY.  That's what the liver and kidneys and other systems do -- filter out potential trouble-makers and send them out of the body.  That's one reason we get the runs and breakouts of our skin, sure, but I subscribe to the thriftiness hypothesis -- the simplest, most obvious explanation is often the best one.

The kind of detox I mean is the sort in which bad fat-soluble substances get stored in our fat cells, and when we start burning fat, they get released again into the body.  Those kinds of detox symptoms are logical -- and I wouldn't call them "detox" as readily as I would "RE-tox."  With any kind of luck, our bodies are now more capable of filtering them out and successfully eliminating them than it was the first time around.  But when other people talk about detox it seems to describe a situation in which one is killing off the bad actors in one's system, and they then respond by throwing a riot -- a Herxheimer reaction to candida die-off sort of situation.

I'm not saying it CAN'T happen, I just suspect it's an "easy explanation" of a much more complicated response.  You've been getting pimples?  "Your body is detoxing through the skin" seems much more far-fetched than "you're sensitive to modern dairy products" or "you're STILL getting too much omega-6 in your diet," when it comes to a VLC-eater.  Most of them eat conventional meat, for convenience or economic reasons, and those meats are heavier in O6 than is ideal -- ditto when it comes to cheese and cream.

Okay, in the case of newbies to LC, we can expect a goodly amount of learning curve -- and those who start burning decades'-worth of stored fat WILL set free undesirable contaminants and PUFAs as their fat-cells shrink.  What tends to really get my panties in a bunch is when detox products on the market are touted by people who should know better.  How many programs as "Dr" Oz promoted in the course of his television career?  :-P

Wanna detox your liver, really?  Go on a fast, a good long one.  Drink very clean water.  When you get off of it, eat pristine paleo with lots of grassfed saturated fats.  No fructose AT ALL.  No alcohol.  No oxalates or hormetic-response foods.  Don't stuff yourself with more food than your stomach feels comfortable with digesting in a few hours.

Hmmm, I think I just described a cleaned-up version of Strong Medicine....

16 comments:

  1. Over and over again though, on that ZC page, people report problems with how their bodies respond to what they're eating. The page-owners leave their experienced-and-knowledgeable replies in amongst the comments of -- ahem -- people with considerably less of both qualities.

    With all due respect this is the same kind of advice that people get on the 30 BAD forum and they're both wrong.

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    1. I do hear that the detox excuse is widely used in veg*n circles as well, though I have no contact with them.... I generally think it's bogus, no matter what the dietary plan. LOTS of different things may be causing the various complaints of these people, and only the individual can possibly determine what helps.

      :-) On the other hand, I incline toward the old Sevateem adage, "if you're wounded, look for a man with scars."

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  2. I just don't believe in the detox explanation when a diet makes someone have pimples, gain 10 lbs or bloat. I read it as a quack response.
    To the occasional fast regiment I would add a long sleep. It is a nice combination.

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    1. Oh yes indeed -- SLEEP! Wonderful way to reset the body, when it's been under stress!

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  3. I dislike the words "detox" since I do work in a laboratory for my full time job. If you've eaten chipped old lead bowls or pain or your kid has, I want to know. If you've accidentally or on purpose ingested rubbing alcohol, rat poison, anti-freeze, your mom's stash of oxy, I also want to know.

    Yes, liver, kidneys, even spleen (think cell fragments, nRBC's, sickle cells being removed). Body is constantly filtering or we'd be dead.

    Detox like the words healthy, cleanse... oh boy. Standards are needed in the field, IMO.

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    1. "Cleanse".... yep, that's another goodie! :-D I smile wryly when I read that someone claims a "healthy diet" with "healthy fats" in it -- do they subscribe to our notion that naturally-occurring animal fats are healthy or are they stuck in the corn-oil paradigm? Somebody else's healthy diet full of salads and pasta would make me feel like hell-warmed-over!

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  4. Agreed, I have tried to belong to the forums and pages but there is an element of hubris and I find it aggravating. Agreed on the retox and real detox...rest and digest refers to the natural actions of our body's organs. The real problem is that when some people change things, then things change...kind of funny, huh?

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    1. changing things changes things? :-O who would have thought it! [evil grin]

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  5. Even before I started learning about food and endocrinology, "cleansing" by drinking a bunch of fruit juice never made sense to me.

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    1. :-) "but fruit is the Garden of Eden food!' ...people who believe in tGoE will find it easier than more sophisticated thinkers to think that fruit is the ideal food....

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  6. I have not bought into that "detox" explanation either. I understand a few days of low carb flu if you are a carboholic who is dropping carbs suddenly, but other than that, when your body is responding by all sorts of negative feedback maybe it's telling you something is WRONG. Especially when the so-called "detox" persists past 48 hours or so.

    I think ZC is kinds of scary. We don't even know what we don't know about micronutrients, and I'm not in the camp that believes that animal protein and fat can provide all. Even Inuit will eat all the greens they can when they are available. It may take years or even decades to fully know the side effects of ZC.

    I'm with you on the cleanse, too. Around here, alternative health practitioners are as thick as thieves (metaphor chosen on purpose!) and they all have their pet "cleanses". What the heck does that do to a gut microbiome--even a dysfunctional one is probably better than none! There's a fasting component to almost all cleanses, and I think that's the part that people benefit from, if anything. Meanwhile I'll stick with religious fasts--no colonics or endless drinks of horrible concoctions.

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    1. "...alternative health practitioners are as thick as thieves (metaphore chosen on purpose!)...." LOVE IT! :-D

      I'm sure you've read that the probably reason Keys found his "Mediterranean diet" so beneficial because he caught Crete in the middle of a religious fast -- i got an evil chuckle out that!

      Although i do feel great on ZC, it's very hard to stick to in this country. People like me who like to travel, eat out, and try new cuisines are going to shrug and compromise by aiming for VLC!

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  7. A successful diet should be easy to follow for years and to be minimaly desruptive for your life. I found LC fits the description - it controls appetite and allows to find acceptable choices everywhere. It can't be said about a low reward diet. ZC sounds too restrictive, and very limited of food choices. I can't imagine doing it for a person who doesn't live alone.

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    1. yes, it was when my husband was working out of town, that I experimented with the Strong Medicine regimen! One of the things I liked about it was that it simplifies life so much! Í didn't spend a lot of time planning meals or grocery shopping or cooking -- I had plenty of time, energy and leisure to do more interesting things!

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    2. I also want to share my thyroid hormone dose change experience. I didn't notice a lot of changes at the beginning, except the disappearance of hot flashes. In two months after upping the dose I started to loose weight steadily and slowly,even though I eat slightly more now and don't fast. It reminds me the beginning of LCarbing. My TSH is close to the low border of norm now. It is hard to outdiet a hormonal based resistance to a weight loss. Exercise doesn't help much as well.
      I also don't have craving for seaweeds any longer.

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    3. no longer craving seaweed is very interesting! i'm glad you're feeling better, too -- hormones are so important for well-being!

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