One of Wooo's commenters is dealing with a frustration that happens to a LOT of people -- especially women. C is under the impression she's doing everything right, but not seeing the progress she expects.
Not knowing her, nor her history, nor her actual practices, i won't presume SHE is doing what i'm about to describe, but so many people do, it's something that needs talking about.
I recommended following Atkins or Eades AS WRITTEN -- the basics, no tweaks. In a follow-up comment, i specified their actual meal plans. I think this is an important starting place, because if people begin their LC experimentation based on what they read in forums and miscellaneous blogs written by people who already know how their bodies respond to BASIC LC, they may easily skip over stages and signs they need to know about. Most of "us" here did our LC "boot camp" some time ago, and those early experiences influence what we do today.
Dr. Atkins' revised diet revolution (2002? i'm not sure of the date...) contains SO MUCH INFO, it's easy to slip past the elementary stuff and concentrate too soon on the minutia. So elementary it's unnecessary to dwell on? NO. So elementary, it's the bedrock on which everything else rests.
I believe I slipped out of the basics too soon, myself. It was such an effective program for me, i got ambitious to move out of the induction phase too soon, seduced by enticing low-carb recipes that were a little TOO carby. I know, Atkins himself said one shouldn't stay in induction too long -- that it's important to slowly add in more carbs to see at what point one's body stalls. I disagree. My experience suggests that losing almost all the weight one wants to ON INDUCTION will help keep that train on track till its destination is reached. THEN fiddle around with finding your critical carb intake level.
I also believe that one reason people don't have as good a result when attempting LC a second time is that they never begin as a purist again. They "know" they can get away with certain tweaks ... and those sneaky little cheats and shortcuts completely spoil the game. Well, also, the body has the experience of running on fats and ketones, and doesn't WASTE nearly as much energy in the adaptation process as it did the first time, too! The pink color on the pee-strips doesn't just indicate you're burning your own fat for fuel, it means you're pouring energy (ketones) down the toilet! As a LC veteran progresses, s/he often finds the pink fades away -- our bodies are becoming adept at USING those ketones for energy instead of flushing away what it doesn't know what to do with.
THAT is why i suggest to people who are interested in a LCHF diet, go buy the New Diet Revolution and follow exactly what it says (but to use animal fats instead of omega-6 oils, and stay away from the soy and gluten products). No one knows better than me, the lure of experimentation! I'm not tempted by pizza and cookies, i'm tempted by the perfectly legitimate possibilities of zoodles and cauliflower rice and ... other things which technically follow the rules, but which potentially derail a perfectly functional dietary plan.
I think Dr.Eades requested detailed food diaries for a reason - without details it may be difficult to realize what is going on. With the commenter on Wooo's blog something strange is going on - when people start LCarbing at least water will be lost, may be her unusually long GI strike explains at least some troubles reflected by her scale moving up.
ReplyDeletepeople do have mysterious "failure to lose" experiences -- my daughter, for instance, and i KNOW she's inclined to measure and weigh food carefully and record it meticulously. keeping a diary of how one feels, and activities and unusual events helps, too! Atkins said things like allergies, antibiotics, and other things can affect weight loss, even things that seem totally unconnected.
DeleteA good friend just started Atkins, doing it to the letter, and she's getting great results. She wanted to lose a little weight, which she has, but she's raved about her new steady energy level and reduced hunger. She has The New Atkins for a New You, which came out a few years ago.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like C was doing things by the book, but had some GI problems to be sorted out first.
these things are SO individual.... that's why I've come around to endorsing practicing physicians with a low-carb emphasis, and their enlightened colleagues in nutrition (I met Franziska Spritzler on the cruise, and she is DELIGHTFUL). they have experience of everything that CAN go wrong, I think, and knowledge of what HELPS in those cases.
DeleteGood posts, these last two. I'm also intrigued by the fact the doctors implementing LC clinically do not seem to run into trouble with their patients. Are they lying? Are their patients lying? I think it's only fair to believe them at their word. Ditto for people saying it isn't working. I think there's something to not doing it right, despite some getting upset at being told so.
ReplyDeletePersonally, despite severe Crohn's with stenotic bowel segments, I do best on meat and fat. Vegetables spell trouble. As does starch and fibre. I'm doing things backward. I got to the meat and fat first, by having slowly eliminated all else, and now I'm reading all the books.
I just started on The Big Fat Surprise. Just a few pages in and she states that Paleo eaters survive on little else but red meat. Uh oh, that's not gonna go down well with most regular Paleo types. I have to say, I do like the older books like Atkins best.
Btw, do I notice an ever so slight backtracking on PS on Animal Pharm today?
Their patients must run into some problems, but LC doctors know how to troubleshoot because they've done it so often. A newbie, especially if they're not used to paying attention to what they eat and how they feel, will have a hard time knowing which fix to select.
DeleteThe original Atkins book goes light on vegetables--my friend can't even have tomatoes on induction. Protein Power allows quite a bit.
thanks, Michael! it's GREAT that you've found what works for you, no matter how you arrived at the knowledge. ;-) we're so accustomed to seeing our friends and relations struggling with health issues and not having a clue that their "salvation" might be a changed diet....
Deletethe more I read about vegetables, the more I'm confirmed that for many people they're more trouble than they're worth! they're famine foods -- people can live on them, but not optimally. if you LIKE them (and I do) and can tolerate them (I don't do that well), chow down ... but don't try to tell the unknowing that they MUST have them. a child's instinctive aversion, science tells us, is actually correct.
I agree with you Tess. I started with Protein Power 10 years ago and followed it to a T. Then I got sloppy. Then I started tweaking. Then I regained all the weight I lost. After several years, I have found all my weaknesses and have eliminated them. Fore example, even though I am not lactose intolerant, I cannot have cream in the house otherwise I'll drink it. Typically on a daily basis, I eat mostly meat/fish/eggs, 1/2 cup of cauliflower, green salad or green beans, lots of butter, and 1/4 cup of frozen berries of some sort with 1/4 cup of plain greek yogurt or cherries in season (only between mid-may to july). This is the only thing that works for me. C needs to figure out what works for her and hopefully it won't take her several years to figure it out.
ReplyDeleteit's nice to have people agree with the conclusions I reach -- mine are based on personal experience and observations of others, and are therefore limited.... ;-) I think it's interesting that you observe good results from those serving sizes of vegetables and berries, because I see something very similar in myself, too!
DeleteThis certainly makes a lot of sense! I did Atkins a couple of times, did South Beach last time (2009)....'succeeded' in all, but within a year, due to serious stressful situations, I caved. That said, I was never 90-95% grain or sugar free in 'maintenance' like I am now, so cravings were always brooding due to brain chemistry changes.
ReplyDeleteBut we all react/respond differently, that's why your advice is sound!
thanks, Gwen -- we may not be universal poster-children for LCHF, but for women in midlife, I believe our examples can help others.
Deletei'm a stress-eater/drinker, too -- I don't self-medicate for depression, but I have been know to do it from anger. ;-)
Right now blueberries and nectarines just started to ripen up in my garden which I planted when I thought about fruits as the ultimate healthy food. I can't stay away from my own produce except when it is an orange crop or figs - too sweet, my husband eats it. Blueberries definitely make me more interested in eating other foods during the day, even though mines are not very sweet - land in Florida doesn't produce sweet berries for some reason.
ReplyDelete:-) I keep frozen and dried blueberries around the house, because I love them and they're not "evil" in reasonable quantities! I envy you your crop -- when we get our yard renovated, we plan to have a few fruits and vegetables, but it will be years before some of it bears. I put in rhubarb a few years ago, and it looks like i'll FINALLY get a small harvest this summer.
DeleteBlueberries and rhubarb two of my favourites. You're lucky Galina to have blueberries ripening in your garden.
DeleteI can remember when young my parents had a wonderful rhubarb patch, it tasted great, can't best home grown.
All the best Jan
I like rhubarb too, I make a meat sauce of it with garlic and cilantro. It doesn't grow in a North Florida climate, but we do have huge blueberries bushes - 6 - 7 feet tall, which are immune to all mites, caterpillars and other insects which eat almost everything else. I am not a dedicated gardener, my grin thumb is underdeveloped, but figs, nectarine,pineapple guava, pomegranates, citruses also survive my sporadic care.
DeleteYou mentioned tallow from beef or lamb helping with constipation on Woo's blog and I was wondering would lard also do the same? I am rethinking the whole pork and lard idea of being healthy for me since my homeopath from Norway says to restrict it. Since being on the paleo diet constipation has been normal for me.
ReplyDeleteDonaldson wrote, "In the far North, and Indian or Eskimo knows that by regulating his intake of caribou fat he can have as many bowel movements as he pleases." I seem to remember he mentioned tallow for his patients as well, but it's proving harder to find. :-)
DeleteI don't seem to see the same effects from lard or dairy fat in myself. the former has much more omega-6 even in a pastured animal, though -- I prefer more saturated fats in my diet for my thyroid's sake, too, so I use bacon-drippings for flavor but usually discard the fat that may cook off conventional pork.
I find that a conventional diet (even WAPF) promotes constipation in me, but a mostly-meat regimen does not. do you eat a lot of cheese? it's notoriously constipating. so are raspberries and blackberries, and even the teas made from their leaves.
good luck with this! there's not much more miserable than being plugged up....
Thank you for your reply .As far as my diet, no conventional gobbledygook for me, unless I don't mind inflammation. ;-) Think I have just figured out that when I do eat pork fat and cook with lard, I suffer with constipation. I just ordered duck fat and hope this and tallow will help. Need to educate myself on the type of fats that help my body since I have not been a low carber long.
DeleteAt 60 yrs old, It's all trial and error for me at this point. While I can stand to lose a few pounds, I mainly am eating this way to keep the inflammation down in my body.Thank you also for the info on raspberries and blackberries since I had no idea.
I really enjoy reading and learning from blogs like yours. I can''t thank you enough for taking the time to post.
my pleasure! my aim here is to offer my own experience in an attempt to help anyone who may be in a similar boat to mine! :-)
DeleteSome of the mistakes I did as a LC newbie:
ReplyDelete- Trying to "bulk up" my meals with low-calorie vegetables like salads and broccoli. I will keep eating and stretch my poor stomach UNTIL my body gets its caloric/nutrient requirement. I usually end up feeling really tired, abdomen perversely bloated, and I still can't get off the "hunger" train after dinner. Nowadays I volume down my plate and eat protein/fat first, and vegetables as a side.
- Sleep. Personally I am extremely sensitive to blue light. Blue blockers literally changed my life. I also use blackout shades so even if I do happen to wake up in the middle of the night, I can fall back asleep easily.
-Vinegar shots after meals.
- Magnesium supplements.
-Read all the labels on foods I buy, even if it's "low-carb". I struggle with maltitol.
thank you for adding this! when we all contribute our experiences, we provide a database of possible help for everyone out there who is still struggling! :-D
DeleteI LOVE that first long paragraph -- it works with my hypothesis (inspired by J Stanton) of nutrient-malnutrition driving hyperphagia! (I HATE the term overeating because it's so overUSED -- most people wouldn't do it if they were being satisfied by their choice of foods...).
Haha, I was just thinking about this the other day. The term "overeating" has suffered so much abuse in pop media I think it has become meaningless. On SAD, I was brainwashed into thinking that anything greater 300 calories was too big for a meal. Anything other than skinless chicken breast and broccoli and my mind trembled with guilt.
DeleteI definitely eat less when I up my quality of protein/fats.
I have a current love affair with baked brussel sprouts and I ate too many - full capacity, stomach stretched which made me hungrier, kept sniffing around the kitchen and feeling a melancholia. Measured my BS and it was extremely high than if I had had a fatty meaty meal. So I have to watch my veggie intake. Thing is I always hated veggies, but since going strict LC I have a new appetite for them (probably because I can use fat and not steam them) but maybe it's just my bodies way of ferreting out sugar sources..? I have purchased a pressure cooker - super cheap at Aldi - looking forward to experimenting this weekend, with juicy meat falling to pieces...mmmmm
DeleteI do apologise for my spelling, grammar as I'm at work and typing too fast..got so much to do and busy but can't help myself with my blog addiction.
DeleteMy mom's fibrosis shrank too after a year of LCarbing, may be it all coincidences because we keep exchanging personal anecdote instead of clipping and pasting a research data.
DeleteIn my experience pressure cooker is the best vessel to cook a piece of meat if you want it juicy, especially with connective tissue.It takes 30 - 45 minutes. I usually put about one inch of a liquid on a bottom, and brown meat on a skillet before cooking,
This is not really relevant but just wanted to share with similar ..ahem..aged ladies that I had fibroids measuring 4cm and 6cm. The larger one was vascular but specialist said only 1% chance of carcinoma. Big operation suggested to remove, hysterectomy etc with possible bladder, etc complications. I adopted a wait and see, and went super super LC (not just for the fibroids but for weight/health reasons) and I monitor my BS like a hawk. Good news, had recent scan and the fibroids have shrunk!! Carcinomas don't shrink!! So saved myself an operation and possible complications for nothing. Did LC and strict BS control help?? If I was on a SAD or low fat high carb diet would they have shrunk..who knows...but I have believe so. Now does anyone know anything about a fricking umbilical hernia...always something...
ReplyDeleteHURRAH! diet CAN heal things that don't seem connected.... my fibroids cost me my uterus but not ovaries, for which i'm eternally grateful. ;-)
DeleteWhy does soy sauce have to have soy and gluten in it. That sucks!! Get post Tess, you really got me motivated!!! I'm all fired up and off ranch dressing. It's the little things you know.
ReplyDeletethanks, Rick! if you don't use MUCH soy sauce, it's not too "evil" just to buy a good brand of tamari, which does NOT have wheat, and the soy is traditionally processed and therefore not as toxic. if you like to use a lot, the preferred "primal" alternative is coconut aminos. :-)
DeleteWooo's experience mirrors the typical "low-carb" experience perfectly: phenomenal initial results; plateauing; ever lower carbohydrate levels required to see results; a thoroughly tanked metabolism (hence the self-caused "metabolic derangement" of people like Jimmy Moore). That's it in a nutshell.
ReplyDeleteReaching a plateau at size 0 doesn't look like somebody had a problem with a weight loss. It is not most reasonable size for a female older than 30. It is great in her case to have a room for a weight gain without turning into an overweight person.
ReplyDelete