Another erstwhile lowcarber has joined the ranks of the starch brigade, and has begun the sad practice of strawman-fighting. :-(
Because it's EASIER to contradict and mock a philosophical opponent when you exaggerate or oversimplify his/her argument. It may make it easier to churn out blog-posts, but in the greater debate it doesn't get much ground covered. The two (or more) sides waste time and effort restating their premises definitively, the waters become permanently muddied, and the people who really need a concise answer as soon as possible ... moulder to dust.
Crafting ways to malign a counter-argument inappropriately is sloppy debating and pathetic "reasoning." Pasting an inapplicable label on, which everyone can agree to despise, does not make the basis of that position any less true.
NO, not everyone needs to VLC. YES, tolerance can be measured, so no longer should be a question of preference over physiology. ABSOLUTELY, experiments can and have been designed and run to prove any damned thing you want, so referencing studies by, for, and of the cherry-picker should perish from the earth.
But merely because some people carry more amylase-gene copies doesn't mean they SHOULD base their diets on starches. Though they tolerate a higher-starch diet better than we consistent lowcarbers do, there's STILL the issue of hyperglycemia, and the fact that tissues like the eyes take damage from it because even with faultless insulin performance, it isn't insulin which allows glucose in or keeps it out. If the ability to utilize starch well were the ONLY question in sugar-sourced illness, skinny people would not get diabetes.
It's time to revisit Lifextension's outstanding post about amylase. The novelty-loving blogosphere is very fond of focussing its attention so closely on details of the forest, the facts implied by the trees' distribution over the landscape sometimes gets ignored.
Don't you just hate people who don't see things in black-and-white?
ReplyDeletethey seem to be harder to shoot down.... :-)
DeleteThings are not black and white most of the time. Many LCarbers who have mostly mild weight issues , like Tom Naughton, have no good reason not to experiment with their boundaries. In my case all experimentation results were negative.
ReplyDeleteI predict the next turn-around would be "wheat is not that bad". Well, many live happy and long life eating bread, and I am sure a good part of healthy young people who picked-up paleo life-style in order to improve their gym performance could reintroduce bread back into their diet without any trouble. We will see am I right or not in a year or two..
not being a follower of RN's blog, i don't know -- did he ever come out and say that the milk diet was a big mistake and that his previous enthusiasm and reporting of benefits was delusive?
Deletei always suspect that some of the egotists of the blogosphere can't bring themselves to say "you were right and i was wrong" about the novelties they try, love, and which ultimately fail them.
i also suspect that the damage they're going to do to themselves is not going to be visible soon enough to be significant to the current debate. ...but that doesn't mean the damage isn't accruing!
I am not a follower too since year and a half ago or something like that. I don't know when milk/potato diet stopped being the miraculous one.
DeleteNicely written, Tess.
ReplyDeleteI don't have an opinion on the RS stuff, but it is a bit bemusing how it has rolled over the blogosphere like a wave of vague anecdotal 'stuff'.
thanks, Mr. Chips! :-) apparently, quite a few people DO see improvements with RS -- i'm good with that. i haven't heard caveats about the people who DON'T, though, in the blogs i visit ... although i know a lot of people have problems.
Deleteit's gonna be all about exactly what one's physical limitations are! if a person used to cope well with carbs but that went away after a round of antibiotics, a good probiotic and PS (or plenty of soluble fiber) will probably be a good thing. if a life-long issue with carb-related weight gain has existed, no amount of resistant starch is going to do a damn bit of good.
Tom holds forth on starches with the zeal of a born-again. It's all very touching. Almost comical. But if he and others were so sure last time and yet were apparently wrong, why should I be convinced by their surety this time?
ReplyDeletelol -- very apt! :-) it makes me think of the "memory of pain" theories which explain why women are willing to experience childbirth again and again, even though the experience is extremely unpleasant....
Deletewe DO get excited about something new which SEEMS to be working nicely ... until something goes a bit off-kilter....
Ok, RS is beneficial for some people, and not everybody is in the need of a LC diet, it is all doesn't need to be deputed.However, I don't see how the people who decided to eat more carby diet wouldn't cut their fat consumption.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I agree with everyone removing unnecessary diet restrictions.
I still not sure what keeps infections and flues away for me - not eating grains and sugar or eating more eggs, butter and red meat than before.
you've got a very good point, there -- i've been under the impression that carb or fat ALONE is acceptable, but together they're actually dangerous -- do the potato-eaters still smother them in butter and sour cream? NOT a good idea!
Deletei suspect our illness-resistance is a result of our sugar-restriction AND micronutrient-repletion! whatever, it's WONDERFUL. :-)
My mom's uncle got cured from tuberculosis in 1944 eating ample amounts of butter, eggs an salted pork fat. I guess the more "safe starches" one consumes, the less butter should be eaten.
Deleteit makes sense that your great-uncle was cured with good fats -- my understanding is that sat-fats are essential for the protective coating in the lungs. HOW MUCH butter and starch is safe to eat together is probably a function of how much exercise one gets, and how many total calories, too.
DeleteThis cute video explains why things like potato chips and french fries (which contain lots of carb and fat) make you fat.
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fz3YO8Tjic
those kids are probably going to help him "stay honest." ;-)
DeleteNever thought Tom would go all potato-head on us. Glycogen in meat after it's been dead for awhile? Glucose deficiency? This, from someone who used to know good science from bad science?
ReplyDeleteI just didn't read his RS blog posts because my own experiments gave undesirable results.
Deleteas observed above, Tom never did get VERY overweight or ill on a SAD diet.... nevertheless, i'm surprised, too! i imagine that, seeing his daughters and (naturally thin) wife able to eat "anything" and thrive, it tempted him as well. AND he does get a decent amount of exercise, which allows him to burn more than a lot of people.... i just wonder what his good buddy Jimmy thinks of all this! ;-)
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DeleteAs I've said, I don't think RS is a good idea, even if you "tolerate" it. Potatoes in the raw are not digestible in more than a small amount. Regardless of amylase in my saliva, my concern is that eating starch leads to carb-creep and regain of fat and hormone imbalance. There are no long term real studies in humans on RS. You could say that of VLC as well except it doesn't lead to weight gain, etc..
ReplyDeleteSo, that said I think this RS stuff will lead people back into SAD eventually and more metabolic disease.
As an anecdote my colleague doc needed me to cover his clinic today, he's sick again and eats a starchy sugary diet daily (Pakistani) I on the other hand eat fat and meat and have not had an illness in 7 years on VLC/ket diet. BTW I have an actual Dx of Celiac Disease and should therefore be prone to other illnesses too numerous to count. I'm not sick.
your clinical experience is valuable input -- i'm always glad when you give your feedback -- thanks for coming here!!!
Deletei noticed even with ordinary Atkins-style LC, my health improved greatly, and paleo REALLY helped. do you see a lot of "cross-irritation" with things that other celiacs sometimes report? cheese, etc?
Eating raw potatoes will make you sick as hell. I don't care what kind of starch it is, it's not a good idea. It's not going to kill you or anything, it's just not going to help your inflammation levels, or your weight loss goals.
ReplyDelete:-) i used to enjoy eating the occasional slice of raw potato as a kid -- learned it from my mother who STILL indulges if she ever cooks them. now SHE is a potato addict if there ever was such a thing!
DeleteI was told by a woman who lived in Korea for a while that they fermented for kimchi not only cabbage, but also julienned radishes and raw potatoes. I never tried or saw it myself.
DeleteI read the Primal guru's post and don't agree. Anyway a probiotic is much cheaper, easier, and way more effective. If you want to have more vivid dreams stop masturbating every night before you sleep. (Can I say that?)
DeleteWe just had Thai food tonight, and man it was good. My wife asked me six times to eat some rice. She asked me how I could feel full without eating any rice. For dessert I got a triple espresso and poured a half cup of half and half in it. I got a pretty good buzz goin.
Deletein ethnic restaurants I've found delicious pickles made of vegetables I couldn't identify! :-) a bit scary, actually....
DeleteRick, you can be risqué here, but not mean. ;-) ... we rarely eat Thai, but I assume the situation is like a lot of cuisines -- usually possible to pick around the carbs and be satisfied. after all, you're eating the part that actually sticks to your ribs.