Tuesday, May 19, 2015

enough is enough

I've been reading some ZC-community discussions recently, and something that comes up from time to time is leaving me chronically astonished.  Now, anyone who reads here much knows that "i love me my meat" but some people out there are eating really outrageous quantities.  I have a sneaking suspicion that those who are consuming more than a pound, multiple times a day, are doing it for other reasons rather than for true hunger.

Certainly, people who work hard (or work OUT hard) burn a lot of fuel, and when that fuel is almost entirely "meat" it takes quite a bit of steak and eggs to match that ol' "energy out."  But a lot of the people who eat like that don't seem to have a lifestyle that requires so much input.

Are they eating to appetite, but with the appetite driven by inadequate nutrition?  Despite some individuals who claim to have eaten nothing but ribeye steaks for years, mere muscle-meat does NOT contain every vitamin and mineral needed by humans.  Even the most ardent meat-lover who has read anything on the subject knows that the Inuit and "Plains Indians" did not live by steak alone -- organs and specialized tissue containing rare-from-animal-source nutrients were the most prized parts of any harvest.  If one is not willing to eat liver, brains, hearts, kidneys, or to add other foods like nuts and eggs ... or to SUPPLEMENT (which some of these people disdain insistently), one is going to miss out on important dietary requirements.

...And we know that nutritional deficiency can drive excess appetite.  Stanton covers it definitively, and i'm sure plenty of other writers do as well.

Another reason for surprisingly-large meat-meal size might be the reaction from a red-meat-deficient diet before -- a badly-stretched gut longing to be filled, and making up for lost time.  If this is the case, i'd be inclined to counsel them to retrain their innards to thrive on smaller portions.  It won't happen overnight, but i believe their systems will thank them!  If it's true that our bodies have a finite capacity for making enzymes, these people are going to hit the wall someday!

Somehow, probably as a reaction to the chronic-starvation that is CICO, it has become en vogue to overfeed -- to make the body burn more fuel by providing more hot-burning food TO burn.  The desire to do so is understandable but again of dubious wisdom.  Another "if it's true" moment:  Rosedale claims that keeping one's "motor" revving too high will lead to burning it out more quickly;  he might have a very good point there.

People often come to ZC with a history of diabetic (or prediabetic) blood-sugar issues.  If they begin eating huge amounts of protein, are they functionally "getting their carbs through the back door" by taking in so much meat that much of it is converting to glucose?

I've long been a critic of the "everything in moderation" philosophy -- by that way of thinking, regular doses of known trouble-makers in the diet are granted legitimacy they don't deserve.  However, i cautiously support the idea of "EACH thing in moderation;"  it's very easy to get too much of a good thing!  And no, i'm not reverting to the anti-hedonic puritanism that too often infects the nutrition world -- i'm instinctively reacting to what a logical person might perceive as excess.  So what if men on the Lewis & Clark expedition ate nine pounds of meat per day -- does that REALLY seem like a good idea to you?

People who are not satisfied until they get supraphysiological quantities of protein in their daily diets probably need to take a long look at why that might be.  They also should read up on what it might do to them.  Happily, we do know that "high" protein isn't going to damage previously-healthy kidneys, but a very-high muscle-meat-only diet (as opposed to a high-fat one, based on animal products) is just as "unbalanced" as any regimen a vegan advocates.

16 comments:

  1. I think we are all just guessing. We have had decades-old medical and scientific data debunked, the human body IS a mystery, even now, and I just don't think ANYONE really knows. We 'know' what we think we know, what data currently shows, but since it's not been tested out for decades by a large enough sample size, I can't say for sure about anything. I have tried to stop throwing stones, and just figure each person has to do the best for themselves that they can. We are all going to die anyhow...all we can do is try to make it the best quality life possible. Each of our bodies are unique, and we each need to find our own way. I get what you are saying, but I just personally am weary of trying to fight for what I think is right and push it on others. It's enough to just focus on me. ;) Not putting your thoughts or post down...just responding on what works for me, mentally and emotionally, on the subject.

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    1. i suspect that "what we know" scientifically is only the starting point -- the very best "science" isn't carved in stone until we apply what is hypothesized and CONFIRM IT, in our own n=1. Sure, we're just guessing ... until our bodies reach an agreement with our philosophies.

      My point of view here is that people are letting their pendulums swing a little TOO far.... they starved themselves on low-fat-low-cal plant-based diets, and ended up as sick as a poisoned pup. Instead of eating half of the fat, protein and total energy that is "normal" as they have for too long, they're now eating TWICE as much of everything, in rebellion -- is that wise?

      They're certainly free to seek out what WILL make them feel better -- i applaud their strength and independence, and wish them the very best! As a group of people who have impressed me as open and kind, hurting but bravely exploring the extreme frontiers of nutritional experimentation, i REALLY feel concern that they're recklessly flirting with dangers where they might have better hope of success with a little more circumspection.

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  2. They might think they're doing Atkins. There are people who assume Atkins is all meat and you can eat as much as you want.

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    1. The people i'm referring to seem to realize that they're BEYOND basic Alkins LC. Some have studied up on ZC and are doing it carefully and consciously, but others (as so often happens) seem to have jumped in without any realization of how deep the water might be.

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  3. I think I may have said this before on your blog ... going back to my school days when taking my 'Domestic Science' exam we were taught that for a dinner type meal to allow approx 6ozs meat per person! Added to that was potato or rice plus at least two vegetables for example carrots or cauliflower. I remember it quite clearly even to this day.

    We each do have to eat what suits us ... but speak openly about the pro's and con's so that people can make up their own mind.

    For instance I enjoy liver (other's do not) I eat eggs every day (other's do not). If you are doing heavy manual work you must ensure the balance of food types is right ... whereas someone in their 70's who is not as mobile will not need the same food intake. Now that sounds sensible to me but I know there are those who may not agree!

    I do think over the years our plate of food may well have got larger, and in many cases the wrong type of food (in my opinion) has been making an appearance on our plate. We may of course been lead to believe and told you MUST eat this food, that food and the other food.

    It is only in recent years that many peoples eyes have been opened and we are questioning far more the role that eating the right foods plays in our health and well being ... which is a shame because all those years ago it was Hippocrates who said " 'Let food be thy medicine and medicine your food' ... and now in 2015 it still can make such a difference to our health even though modern foods and farming have changed, sometimes beyond recognition of more ancient times.

    Tonight's dinner is a lovely pork casserole with carrot, courgette, celery and mushrooms added plus a little buttery mashed swede, which I think the Americans call rutabaga.

    All the best Jan

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    1. After all these centuries, i imagine Hypocrates might be disillusioned as to how far we have NOT come.... :-(

      Your dinner sounds delightful, though! I'm completely failing to imagine it's flavor -- any herbs with it?

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    2. Hi Tess ... yes poor Hippocrates - don't know what he'd make of these 'modern times' and modern foods'.

      As for the pork casserole yes definitely a selection of herbs and seasoning:

      Here is the recipe idea, which can be amended to suit, especially take account of what may already be in your larder!

      http://thelowcarbdiabetic.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/pork-casserole-rustic-style.html

      All the best Jan

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  4. Amounts and calories count...I am ZC but I have to limit my intake for a few reasons...one is TEF I can literally glow from protein consumption. Fat is important but can add pounds to my small frame. Honestly, that is why I quit the ZC forum..I felt like I was a failure because I couldn't eat a pound of meat a day. I like the philosophy but not the zealotry.

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    1. And this is really a very NICE group! Their mutual support is heartening. Many of them obviously need to limit themselves strictly in order to heal, but others seem very extreme.... Well, i can do nothing but have "“sympathy with the happy, compassion for the sorrowful, delight in the holy, disregard of the unholy,” as Patanjali expresses it.

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  5. From a culinary and social perspectives, eating only meat and zero carbohydrates is a very serious limitation. Just LCarbing could easily fit into most social situation, travel, holiday eating,whatever, but not eating only meat. I think that people follow such inconvenient diet because they have to, then go and brag on blogs in comments for an additional self-motivation.
    In my case I can't eat too much of meat, even though I love it. Veggies are my indulgences, like a chocolate for Peter.

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    1. That was one reason I didn't like Atkins induction: as well as I like meat, I got tired of eating it. I like more vegetables than induction allows. It killed my hunger, but I felt weird. I'm really glad I'm able to eat more variety.

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    2. Certainly, some people have such wide-ranging intolerances that until they can heal their guts, they need to subsist on whatever can best nourish without damaging them. It ain't easy, but i've felt enough relief from cutting out things that make me feel bad (things that other people consider singularly nourishing), that i can both sympathize with them and applaud their strength of will in pursuing such a course.

      Lori, you seem to have similar reactions as my husband -- he just couldn't settle into the diet that i found so simply soothing! :-) Ah, well, chacun a son gout!

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    3. Eating something as a form of a rebellion or for a statement making is always a bad idea, but it crossed my mind that a meat may be not the worse choice of a rebellion food. Many young people live on pizza pockets, chips and coke after moving from parents, vegetarians make a statement by eating too much of plants and no nourishing foods.
      I guess almost no one stays a rebellion forever, people get older and more level-minded, and the period of living on too much meat in younger years could have zero negative effect for later years. Richard N. trays being a permanent life-style rebellion, but he changes his diet all the time to feel rebellious enough.

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    4. "...changes his diet all the time to feel rebellious enough" ... THAT'S OUTSTANDING! :-D Galina wins the internet today!

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    5. I didn't try to say anything sharp, but there are good examples around when a necessity to support a rebellious reputation may look as a heavy burden especially at the age when a Mother nature is less forgiving to her children.

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    6. Maybe that's why I never understood why Nikoley is such a big deal. Once you've been out of your parents' house for a while, what is there to rebel against (unless you're fighting city hall, and sometimes even then)? If you want to live on potatoes/meat/bacon/steak/tofu/fruit, OK. But our bodies are ruled by biology. You can't break the rules, you'll only break yourself on them.

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